Meddler hurry up and give me an explanation for Gragas

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WINU the Giraffe

Member

22-02-14

Tell me why he is allowed to have everything in his kit.
C'mon.


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Serilina

Senior Member

22-02-14

Wasn't it great how on the PBE they applied some much needed nerfs to his kit?

Wasn't it a massive slap in the face when they reverted all those nerfs and reduced his ult mana cost instead?

****ing Gragas man. ****ing Gragas.


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Vhaegor

Senior Member

22-02-14

So Gragas has invisibility, invulnerability, a global ability, every type of CC, Tenacity, CC immunity, resistance shred, AS Steroid, MS Steroid, true damage, % health damage, a shield and reset's does he?


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

22-02-14
1 of 18 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winno View Post
Tell me why he is allowed to have everything in his kit.
C'mon.
Short version:

We agree, Gragas does too much at the moment.


Longer version:

We're tackling Gragas in two stages. The first, in the upcoming patch, is a reduction of a couple of his ratios, to tone down how much he can burst, particularly when doing really well. Given his mobility, tankiness and sustain top tier burst's not something he also needs.

Over the somewhat longer term (underway now, but in the early stages) we're looking to rework some of Gragas' kit. Our thinking is that shifting him towards more of a tanky, drunken, AP brawler playstyle is a better spot for him and we're currently doing some early testing to see how that feels and what tools he then needs to function in such a role.

On a side note, why the aggressive post title? Always happy to chat and I don't think I've missed previous threads from you looking to talk about Gragas, my apologies if so. That sort of attitude can be rather offputting though when looking to drop by and chat in a few forum threads.


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Ancient Yautja

Senior Member

22-02-14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Short version:

We agree, Gragas does too much at the moment.


Longer version:

We're tackling Gragas in two stages. The first, in the upcoming patch, is a reduction of a couple of his ratios, to tone down how much he can burst, particularly when doing really well. Given his mobility, tankiness and sustain top tier burst's not something he also needs.

Over the somewhat longer term (underway now, but in the early stages) we're looking to rework some of Gragas' kit. Our thinking is that shifting him towards more of a tanky, drunken, AP brawler playstyle is a better spot for him and we're currently doing some early testing to see how that feels and what tools he then needs to function in such a role.

On a side note, why the aggressive post title? Always happy to chat and I don't think I've missed previous threads from you looking to talk about Gragas, my apologies if so. That sort of attitude can be rather offputting though when looking to drop by and chat in a few forum threads.
A bit off track but hey Meddler What does it take to become a Champion Designer?


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A bouncy Furret

Senior Member

22-02-14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Short version:

We agree, Gragas does too much at the moment.


Longer version:

We're tackling Gragas in two stages. The first, in the upcoming patch, is a reduction of a couple of his ratios, to tone down how much he can burst, particularly when doing really well. Given his mobility, tankiness and sustain top tier burst's not something he also needs.

Over the somewhat longer term (underway now, but in the early stages) we're looking to rework some of Gragas' kit. Our thinking is that shifting him towards more of a tanky, drunken, AP brawler playstyle is a better spot for him and we're currently doing some early testing to see how that feels and what tools he then needs to function in such a role.

On a side note, why the aggressive post title? Always happy to chat and I don't think I've missed previous threads from you looking to talk about Gragas, my apologies if so. That sort of attitude can be rather offputting though when looking to drop by and chat in a few forum threads.
A bit off track, but when do you decide a champion does/has too much? Even in recently released champions, there's so many effects tacked on to abilities in kits that are completely unneeded.

And how about Vel'Koz? Why do his mana costs keep being lowered on the PBE when they're already pretty low? Are you guys trying to shoehorn him into a pure AP build with no Chalice? What's up with that? It confuses me a bunch.


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

22-02-14
2 of 18 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient Yautja View Post
A bit off track but hey Meddler What does it take to become a Champion Designer?
A successful job application!

On a serious note though, there are a bunch of skills/traits we look for for champion design. Some of the main ones are:

- Strong analytical skills, especially the ability to dissect LoL and other games and identify how things function, secondary impacts, possible alternatives etc.

- The ability to work well with a number of different disciplines (visual art, sound design, creative writing etc). Making a champion involves a whole bunch of people with different backgrounds and skill sets.

- Creativity, both in terms of new ideas and in terms of ways of looking at things/solving problems

- Good self awareness/self management

- Communication skills, both written and verbal, with a focus on being able to be concise and structured when needed


Edit: On reflection that's pretty general stuff. If there's something specific you're curious about let me know.


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Ancient Yautja

Senior Member

22-02-14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
A successful job application!

On a serious note though, there are a bunch of skills/traits we look for for champion design. Some of the main ones are:

- Strong analytical skills, especially the ability to dissect LoL and other games and identify how things function, secondary impacts, possible alternatives etc.

- The ability to work well with a number of different disciplines (visual art, sound design, creative writing etc). Making a champion involves a whole bunch of people with different backgrounds and skill sets.

- Creativity, both in terms of new ideas and in terms of ways of looking at things/solving problems

- Good self awareness/self management

- Communication skills, both written and verbal, with a focus on being able to be concise and structured when needed


Edit: On reflection that's pretty general stuff. If there's something specific you're curious about let me know.
Thanks for the info! I completely suck when it comes to creating artwork (usually my friends will do concept art for my champ ideas) but creative writing and sound design are right up my alley. Currently creating some kind of disease based champion named Sai Edaes. Don't want to clog OP's thread with more of my wishful thinking but thanks again


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Privet

Senior Member

22-02-14

How has it taken so long for Gragas to go untouched? He has been a huge problem for some time now especially when everyone around him gets nerfed and Gragas does not, in fact he gets a buff allowing additional mechanics on his Barrel Roll to make him easier to use and more ambiguous to play against.


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

22-02-14
3 of 18 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by A bouncy Furret View Post
A bit off track, but when do you decide a champion does/has too much? Even in recently released champions, there's so many effects tacked on to abilities in kits that are completely unneeded.

And how about Vel'Koz? Why do his mana costs keep being lowered on the PBE when they're already pretty low? Are you guys trying to shoehorn him into a pure AP build with no Chalice? What's up with that? It confuses me a bunch.
If a champion lacks easily identifiable weaknesses, with a great response to most situations then it's likely they're doing too much. Yasuo for example does suffer from this a bit at the moment, the amount of tankiness his passive can offer in particular. Moderate squishiness is an intended weakness for him that isn't appropriately realized at the moment. As a result we're reducing his shield's duration a bit and strength late game in the next patch.

RE Vel'koz's mana costs his intended niche is as as a frequent casting poke mage. As a result while his costs look pretty low on paper he does still burn through quite a lot of mana, hence the mana cost testing and tuning. Given his lack of mobility/reliable strong CC it's not intended that he be as strongly mana gated as some of our other, safer mages - positioning, team support are bigger deals for him.


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